...Back to drug and alcohol rehabilitation...Wonder if 50's a bit old to start new bad habits?

As discussed in earlier entries there are two issues that constantly arise in the Spanko World. They are whether it's sexual and whether spanking someone other than your partner behind his or her back is infidelity.

The jury is out on both of them. And for those who 'play away from home' defining it as non-sexual helps to justify doing what one wishes to do anyway. When the issue of fidelity is discussed on sites there are usually those who point out issues like deceit, intimacy with others and needing other sources of physical stimulation are all forms of betrayal whether an act is technically sexual or not.

Those who are free to play where they choose and still see it as non-sexual are, I suppose, simply wired differently from those like me who find it intensely erotic. I guess unless we are wired up to electrodes (to our brains!) we cannot be sure. There are the more obvious signs of arousal, but they can be impaired or be unreliable at times.

Once again Woman's Hour has got me thinking! I heard an excellent piece this morning about how lots of young women aspire to be Jordan or Abi Titmuss. I've long been irritated by the idea of 'girl power' and think it is a fallacy even if the Spice Girls, Jordan and others are autonomous and making money for themselves, they still at some level seemed to be 'getting their t**s out for the boys'.

What was interesting about today's feature was the young women were being asked about their motivation - There is an American TV programme that consists of a camera crew going around and women just strip off to be on the programme. A young woman who had stripped and simulated masturbation was asked 'Why?' and said it was a reflex action! Like the commentator I would have had a different perspective if the young woman had been turned on by the experience. To me that would have been about the young woman's sexuality, power and pleasure. Stripping for a camera as a 'reflex action' doesn't seem very empowered to me.

The idea of women copying images of fake arousal (as per porn culture and images) was both fascinating and depressing.

I am not one of those feminist/ex-feminists who are now born-again puritans who have decided we should have all kept out knickers on! I just wish more women were genuinely sexually liberated and doing what pleased them including sharing sexual pleasure with others. I hate the thought of sex being merely a stereotype based on porn culture.

I believe women and men should be able to enjoy anything from celibacy to multiple partners and swinging through monogamy and romance if it brings them pleasure and is safe, sane, consensual and between adults.

It will probably change but at the moment I only have one ad - For drug and alcohol rehabilitation!

As a non-drugtaking teetotaller I'll just make a note...

Wonder how good they are with a tea-drinking, food-loving slothful spankee....

As you will know if you've been reading my thrilling() blog, I have an American spell checker on one of my email accounts which I am 'training' to accept English versions of spellings like 'colour' and 'counsellor' etc. I am also expanding its vocab by teaching it words that ought to exist like 'spankee', 'knicker-clad' and 'witter' and such. Today it picked me up over a typo - I misspelt 'are' as 'asre' and had great delight in my Yankee Spell checker wanting to know if I meant 'arse'!

After thinking and writing about Cinderella I started an alternative version of the story. I am delighted that so did timsuzi! thank you for sharing - As promised - here's mine...

Cinders was a bit of a pain. She was such a martyr! Her stepmother and new sisters did their best to get her back into circulation, but she was having none of it. And of course it all made her poor father nervous and anxious. And so it was that he pandered to her every whim to the frustration of the rest of the family. No wonder the poor man spent so much time working away from home!
The Stepmother was not unsympathetic, but enough was enough! Cinders had lost her beloved mother ten years ago before the widower even considered seeing other women, let alone courting his new wife. And that had all been done in secret to spare poor sensitive Cinders.
So here she was about to spoil their first Christmas and new year as a new family. Her insistence on cooking the Christmas dinner for all, including aunts, uncles and various waifs and strays as well as put her time in with the soup kitchen was enough to try the patience of a saint! With a catch in her voice she insisted that only she should cook the dinner in ‘her dear, departed mother’s kitchen’.
And how Cinders’ lip trembled when her father praised his selfless daughter as the true embodiment of her sainted deceased mother. And how the Stepmother nearly choked on her turkey at the man’s gullibility. And how the Stepsisters nearly threw up when the self-righteous little prig was held up as the embodiment of true feminine virtue. And how unimpressed were Cinders’ new family members when she left the table with a catch in her throat and an exhausted stumble as she fled the table dressed in her mother’s cast-offs and pinny. And how the beautiful dinner was spoilt as the fond father fussed and fretted over his sainted daughter.
It was no surprise that the patriarch realised that urgent business required his attention and a trip away from home before the ceaseless parade of turkey sandwiches had hardly begun. And so it was that the women of the house were left to themselves with the fevered preparations for the Prince’s New Year’s Ball.

I'm listening to Woman's Hour and they've explored the 'usual' themes of Cinders' tale - female rivalry, absent fathers etc. Also fact that 'darker' versions have disappeared and we're left with 'sweeter' modern version. Psychologist pointed out that there is dark side to modern Cinders and mentioned her masochism!
Cinders' masochism is something that hadn't occurred to me before. My early general fantasies (What I think of as pre-sexual, but accept as unconscious sexuality!) were definitely masochistic. In these fantasies/daydreams I tended to be unfairly treated and/or unrecognised and suffered heroically. It was all very vague.

I can't remember being fascinated by any physical 'mistreatment' until the spanking fantasies.
I don't now have erotic fantasies about general humiliation and/or mistreatment - just spanking. I wonder if the fantasies of those more into submission, humiliation and/or lifestyle Dominance/submission relationships echo their choices.

Thinking about this (and my own character!) my version of Cinders would be that she was in the ashes playing the martyr - and back there in the ashes when the Prince came a-hunting. He would however, tell her to get her act together and be exasperated by her 'Poor me' bit and give her a good spanking for it.!

As someone who tends not be into roleplay, nor am I generally submissive or into real punishment spanking, it's a bit hard to explain where I fit in the spanking world(if such a thing exists!) I wrote this to try and explain and posted it on my website. Thought it might be of interest...

Although one adapts to a 'role' to a certain extent during a spanking I claim not to 'do roleplay' This is an explanation of what I mean.

They had both imagined. She knew she had. The stories had danced through her head for as long as she remembered. She might be clever and imaginative, but the stories tended to follow the stereotypes that were so ubiquitous: Where had they come from? These corny images. In recent years the pervasive phone line ads she had seen echoed her favourite fantasies. Now she’d discovered the spanking sites on the net and the popularity of her imaginary roles was again confirmed: the disobedient student, the careless secretary, the lackadaisical maid, the errant wife, the exasperating girl friend.
And he too had imagined. His stories echoed hers. Spankings were ‘earned’ and ‘deserved’. She would want to be spanked, but dread it. He would want to spank her, but it was necessary for the spanking to be justifiable. There was always a moment where she could refuse or take a direction that both knew would mean he could not take her over his knee or order her over the table. But in their stories she never took it. In their stories she would ‘reluctantly’ agree or defiantly add the comment that made the spanking inevitable and both would be thrilled that she had taken them beyond that point where she had willingly put herself into his control, knowing the die was cast and he would spank her. Depending on the scenario, she would sometimes be positioned, still fighting, although they both knew she wanted him to overcome her resistance. And sometimes she would be positioned with reluctant compliance across his lap or bent over the chair. Or he would order her into position and she would place herself how and where he chose.
And when she learnt to trust him and asked him how he imagined spanking her she was surprised at the tenderness of the kisses and caresses leading to the inevitable hand on her bottom, but thrilled to the idea of the stroke that became a spank and the touch that led to a smack. She had read and joked about ‘good girl’ and erotic spankings but had found them odd concepts.
And when she learnt to trust him she discovered the pleasure of his questioning hand on her bottom as he kissed and caressed her and she found that she wanted him to spank her. And the touch became a caress and the caress a tap and the tap somehow led her across his lap and he was spanking her and she realised that spanking was sometimes making love.
And as she learnt to trust him, he spanked her more and spanked her harder. And they imagined the hairbrush and the ruler and the cane and always his hand on her. And he spanked her harder and they both relived the moments when the caresses led to spankings and the spankings made her gasp and yell and protest.
And the disobedient student, the careless secretary, the lackadaisical maid, the errant wife and the exasperating girl friend still filled her head. She could not imagine role playing and found the idea of him as her boss or teacher absurd. She did not want him to be angry with her, but sometimes imagined him spanking her as though she was the disobedient student, the careless secretary, the lackadaisical maid, the errant wife or the exasperating girl friend…
To pretend she did not welcome her spankings seemed strange, but still she wondered how it would feel to be so in his power. They knew he spanked her simply because he could and he wanted her over his knee or across the desk as much as he wanted her in his arms. And she wanted to be there. Knowing he would spank her. Knowing he would raise her skirt. Knowing he would take down her knickers. Knowing he would spank her more. Knowing she would feel his hand. Knowing she would feel the hairbrush, the ruler or the cane.
And they both knew that they wanted her to be completely in his power. And they whispered and imagined. They knew she would be spanked. He would remind her that the only options were when and how and with what and how hard. That she would be spanked was inevitable and both were happy that this was so. And she liked him to tell her how we would spank her. And he liked to tell her. And they reminded themselves that he spanked her because he could.
They knew she would always be spanked with love, but needed to be in his power and they needed nothing else. He would always draw her to him for the kiss that led to the caress and then to the spanking and back to the caress. But he would also spank her with a deliberate but sensual distance. She would know he desired her but he would separate enough from her to spell out his intentions and requirements and she would obey.
She would be told to place herself over his knee or across the table or over the chair. Or he would arrange her for her spanking. He may tell her to expect his hand or the hairbrush or the ruler or the cane. Or not. He may tie her down. Or hold her in place. She would always have the security of her safe word but she would trust him to judge her limit. She would know she would be spanked. Hard. By him. They did not need the disobedient student, the careless secretary, the lackadaisical maid, the errant wife, the exasperating girl friend. They had each other.

I love a dialogue! Thanks Tim/Suzi and Landers!

Re Tim/suzi's comments:

from my earliest recollections spanking is there as something sexual. At the time I wouldn't have known it as that but the feelings were quite genuine and intense.
In someways I am a little puzzled by your comment that fascination preceded sexualisation as I see them as being much more connected than that with one influencing the other and in turn that one affecting the other until you get a tangled web of cause and affect which is impossible to untie.

I don't disagree as such. Because I was aware of excitement but didn't have sexual understanding or overt sexual feelings I think I described it as 'pre sexual' or sexual at subconscious level only to explain how I understood it at the time and how I believe it was.

I often look at explaining things from a biological viewpoint and, I guess, humans like most social animals have rituals of dominance and submission. Children like puppies, kittens e.t.c 'play' as a way of learning the necessary skills to become adults. Perhaps those of us that enjoy spanking as adults are still 'playing'.

Makes sense. I guess how one 'plays' fits this or not. Issues around whether one sees oneself generally as sub or Dom/me withing relationship or in general would also come into play.

Also tease and consequence is a very common form of flirting and again that is part of the appeal of spanking with that butterflies in the stomach feeling of having gone too far this time.

I love the tease and consequence as form of flirting idea. I can add spanking scenes to so many fifties films like 'Bringing Up Baby' and similar.The idea of being spanked for going too far does nothing for me in real life, but in fantasy - Utterly perfect!

It would be great if someone really genuinely did a study of the causes of why people are turned on by spanking. Most of what I have read is just so damning and yet it is far more common than it is admitted too.

i have mixed feelings about this. I agree about negative connotations, but worry that finding 'key' is so often about 'cure'! having spent most of my life wanting to be 'normal, I am now enjoying my dual sexuality and don't want to be 'cured'. As said previously (or similar - I think!) Some of us spankos are damaged. Some are not. Some happy. Some not. Same as gays, swingers, BDSMers, non-kink monogamists, celibates,etc, etc...No -one asks straight, non-kink monogamists why they're like that. If we try to find out the causes of ALL persuasions, then I'd be interested.

There is for example a fair amount of advertising that plays with S/M and if it was really that abhorrent and a minority interest it would not achieve its end of selling product.

Quite! I do think mainstreaming is happening and I want to be part of the trend.

Hmm... thought I'd add to the debate.

Hi, Landers! Thanks!

I was beaten black and blue my father through-out childhood and thinking back to it makes me feel degraded and worthless.

That's awful, but judging from your blog you've more than proved your value since and are a better man than he was.

But, spanking during love-making has never reminded me of those days (although now I've thought about it I'm damn sure it'll be in the forefront of my mind the next time my partner gives me a little light spanking!)... (Oh joy... during sex I shall be thinking of my father!)

Going to be sick!

lol Sorry for such unsettling thoughts! Hope you're better now...

Okay, back now!...

Welcome back/Croeso nol!

Anyhoo, at school I was given the cane. First by the headmaster and then by the head of the lower year. I was 12 and he made me bend over the back of his chair. As he lifted the cane I looked round and uttered the fatal words "you're going to enjoy this aren't you!". Suffice to say the beating was harder than it probably should have been and I was in agony but he stopped before the set number of lashes as he knew he was getting angry.

A few years later he became the head of a primary school but was asked to leave quietly after naughty magazines of men were found in his desk drawer.

Power abuse - plain and simple.

Spanking for me when used sexually is a turn on. If it's a painful then yes it's border-line S&M but personally I don't see anything wrong with this.

As they say... Each to their own.

Agreed absolutely. I also see nothing wrong with it being part of S&M, but I can't see how it CAN'T be S&M if it hurts. And as said, for so many of us, a certain level of pain is what it is about.

Thanks for the dialogue!

Prydwen's comments make perfect sense to me and I can understand that we all have our own history and our own sexuality.

Personally, I have no history of physical chastisement and for some reason (I know not what) the idea of spanking took on a dread, thrill and excitement. Whether unconscious sexuality or pre-sexuality at first I cannot label, but when I became consciously sexual the fascination was there and became sexualised.

I believe for me spanking is central to my sexuality, but it doesn't mean I have less mainstream sexuality and responses. Someone once described themselves as having dual sexuality and that is how I see it as well.

Of course I have given it lots of thought and exploration since my very late 'coming out'and ownership of what I see as my full nature. being a spankee is not the most central part of who I am, just of my sexuality. I am (hopefully!) a complete and complex person and it's nice to have claimed a part of me that has been denied for so long. Like for most of us my sexuality is not central to most of my everyday life, but it is good to have opportunities to explore issues around stuff that interests me and hopefully is of interest to others.

I had a bit of a surf and visited a spanking site for first time in ages.

Someone asked whether spanking was lovemaking. A rather nicely worded enquiry I thought. Naturally those who see it as non-sexual said 'No', but some (not all!) who saw it as sexual had rather narrow definition of sexuality in my personal opinion - On the lines that it was more foreplay than sex!

I hate the idea of foreplay! It is such a degrading way to see a marvellous range of gorgeous sexual activity and pleasure and builds up the assumption that the only true sex is traditional penetration. While I think penetrative sex is also fabulous, I don't actually see it as the pinnacle of sexuality, just part of the glorious range of options available.

I see spanking as lovemaking, because like kissing, cuddling and other forms of erotic play it can be complete in itself and/or lead to other sexual activity. And of course other sexual activity can lead to spanking!

I still believe the biggest sex organ is the brain.

Just writing some rubbish at five and wondering about any insomniacs, shift workers, early risers out in Blogland. Did you know working nights takes seven years off your life? I did a night shift on Thursday and caught up on some sleep on Friday , but found myself incredibly tired at about nine last night (Saturday) so had early night. I awoke at about four this morning so thought I'd potter for a while and have a little look around in Blogland...

As said it is frosty in Fairwater. The temperature appears to have dropped as predicted, but my house is still quite cosy.

I've been looking at my Friends Reunited entry - Yes - I'm sad enough to have an entry! One of the things that I thought was fun was being asked to list your 20 favourite words. My other half thought it would be interesting if I chose 20 words from a Suzee perspective, so here goes!
Spanking
Anticipation
Cane
Playfulness
Sensation
Naughty
Stockings
Eroticism
Paddle
Hairbrush
Fun
Dark
Light
Pain
Sensuality
Crop
Flyswat
Bare
Ambivalence
yes.s.s.s.s.s.s....

I've told my other half I'm going to start writing about him, hoping to pique his curiosity. He did try reading it a while back but I think his cookies (or lack of?!)got in the way or something...

Anyway, there is a South Wales way of talking that is very camp, but some of the speakers would be horrified to realise this. I seem to remember hearing that Rob Brydon (a comic genius in my humble opinion) can do 'Swansea Camp'.

My other half once ventured into a very exciting emporium in darkest Neath called 'Little Amsterdam'. It was a purveyor of goods of a drug and/or sexual kind and had a vey nice leather paddle in the window he came up with a whole mad dialogue between the woman in the shop and an invisible owner in the backroom executed in perfect Neath Camp.

I told my friend G about this and he then embroidered it into my partner being able to do any camp accent in the whole of South Wales and anything less would be a disappointment. When I relayed this to him he immediately did Llanelli Camp and decided he probably can!

When I was shown draft of my last piece I had ads for Broadband and web filters and stuff. Now I'm 'posted' it's back to doom and gloom and counselling and survival - I just don't get it...

I've decided to hold out....I'm not puting up my baubles until the 21st so there! Last year I held out until the 24th, so it's the slippery slope. So if you hear of a giant mooning Santa in Fairwater in September, 2006 it might be my homestead....

Meanwhile I have my cards up, presents bought and turkey ordered.

I've just completed my first Sudoku:D Admittedly it was only a kids' level one, but may be the beginning of the end...

My puzzle of choice has been Hanjie for a while - picture puzzles formed by shading in squares to make pixilated pictures. I am more into the giant ones and coloured puzzles at the moment.

The Observer Review did a few features on games, hence my curiosity about Sudoku which I'd been avoiding so far.

My other half has just informed me about Samichlaus day in Switzerland.

Santa carries a big gold book with all the good things and bad things written down. He is accompanied by two men dressed in black robes, the Schmultzi. If you've been good you get the chocolate and biscuits but if you've been bad you get held and spanked by the men in black. The children of course have always been good but all experience that nervousness when their name is called. Sometimes though Samichlaus and his helpers visit parties of adults where the grown-ups have not been as good as the children and have to take their punishment in public....and I thought Switzerland was all about cuckoo clocks and Toblerone, you never can tell.

I actually love Christmas - you can tell there's a 'but' coming, can't you?:D - but I'm amazed at how early people are putting up the decorations. I expect it in shops and public displays, but decking out your home at the end of November just seems strange - except it isn't one's home, but the front of one's house and the garden.

I'm also amazed (if you've not already noticed, I'm easily amazed!)at how cheap all this stuff has become. I do find lots of these lights and things great fun, but the OTT display seems to have become the norm rather than the exception.

I bought new lights last year and have built up my collection of the nice and the naff over the years. I couldn't resist some fabulous additions this year from the fabulous emporium that is Hypervalue. My rope-haired concertina and harp-playing angels cost me a whole 85p each and my Christmas snowstorm was a snip at a pound, except the snow seems to lack some swirliness... I have some ancient crib figures that I acquired/stole from my parents when they got new ones. I also have some fun carved ones I bought on a Kenyan beach on a scorching hot day - complete with a droopy-winged angel.

I am however, holding out until the week before Christmas before I deck the halls and attempt to compete with the neighbours.

The Devonia chippy on Crwys Road that turned itself into an inflatable version of the Mouth of Hell now has giant Christmas inflatables to welcome you. I've not yet been down North road to see one of the most established domestic Christmas displays in Cardiff.

tim (suzi) [Visitor]

2005-12-06 @ 21:35

Dear suzee,
thanks for your detailed and thoughtful reply to my posting.
Firstly, I'd like to agree with you on the importance of separating one's sexuality from one's everyday persona.

However, I'd like to play Devil's Advocate for a bit and return to why counsellors treat spanking as a symptom of deeper ills because it's not just political although that is what I emphasised in my earlier posting.

Counsellors treat a lot of depressed people. Depressed people often torture themselves with percieved inadequacies and have an inability to forgive themselves for the most minor misdemeanours.
So what do us masochists do? We get someone else to hurt us and set up imaginary scenes where we receive punishment for often imaginary crimes. How big a gulf is there between this and self harming?

Blimey, I should be a counsellor talking like this!

So why is this fantasy so powerful? Why do I keep returning to it?

I guess part of it is that we humans do a lot of strange things which dont quite add up in the sober and rather sterile world of being a 'good citizen'.

Take fear, a bad emotion and surely best avoided. So why do we seek it out in controlled amounts? I love to read and watch ghost stories. When I was a child there was a part of me that wanted to hear stories that I knew would give me sleepless nights and leave me breathless with fear as I walked past moonlit churchyards. Other people bunjee jump and go on fairground rides that cause them to scream with terror.

Isn't spanking a bit like this. Isn't it our own personally scripted Gothic Horror tale which we enter in to but, unlike real punishment, can walk away from if it becomes too intense.

I know there are other complex reasons too for why we enjoy what we do and maybe different people have different reasons too but still end at the same point as I do with my knickers round my ankles!

Hope this isn't pretentious twaddle.

Tim(suzi) has given me lots of food for thought again. Obviously I can only speak for myself, but I'll have a go!

I think the question about similarity/difference between self-harming and masochism is a fascinating one. I am aware that there are spankees and masochists who do or have self-harmed (cutting etc).

I actually believe self-harm is a continuum and almost all of us harm ourselves, are careless of our own safety or fail to look after ourselves in some way - It is at what point it becomes a problem that is the issue. I see self harm as a coping mechanism for many people and that's their choice as long as it is not a real threat nor causing real health or safety problems. Sometimes it is the only thing to help one cope and one will try to give it up (like cigarettes, alcohol, mindless sex or whatever) when one is ready to do so.

I believe there are people who are into BDSM and/or spanking or similar because they are 'damaged' in some way. I also think most of us are 'damaged' in some way, so don't see that that has to be an issue.</